SPICE GIRLS – "Viva Forever"

I’d not seen the video until recently and was beguiled by the imagery of the Spice Girls as faeries seducing a young lad – it ties them into English culture far more deeply than a Union Jack dress. I think the song is better than the rather average production and would be open to a variety of different interpretations

New to me…and, on first few listens, it’s sort of a poor cousin to both Madonna’s ‘Power of Goodbye’ and the SG’s own ‘Mama’. VF’s sort of abstractly pleasant and inoffensive rather than beautiful or sparkling or moving I find. That video, however, is the opposite of the song’s blandness – it’s aggressively weird, and there are lots of comments on youtube from people who were scarred by it as kids!
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“It does nothing unexpected, and it never makes a move when there’s a cheesier one available”. I’m not sure. The Spanish cliches tie in with the brevity of contact with foreign culture you’d experience on your first holiday abroad, so that’s forgivable. Beyond that: Mel C’s harmony on “always be mine” is gorgeous; the very low vocal on the last chorus sounds like a ghost; the strings are subtle and could easily have been over-employed, but they’re not. All good, unexpected touches.

This also feels like a farewell to the infantilism/70s retro aspect of the 90s, which (again) died with Britpop. Fleeting and doomed – you can’t keep looking back. That reference to Live Forever is no accident.

Re 2: Great point.

My favourite song by my all-time favourite pop group.

Some songs define the group and the period of time that produced them. Other transcend it. The classic Spice hits – Wannabe, Spice Up Your Life, 2 Become 1 – are all in the former category. This is the latter. If it ranks among the less remembered Spice Girls #1s, it’s because it doesn’t really sit in their narrative. People remember the Spiceworld period as the moment the machine went into hyperdrive – releasing colossal, garish event singles like Spice Up Your Life, touring the world, endorsing pretty much anything that was thrust into their hands. Viva Forever doesn’t really follow that through though, being by far the most tender and contemplative song they’ve ever released. It’s seriously high-end, adult pop music, an awkward proposition for critics who always have and probably always will struggle to take them seriously. (Not a dig at you Tom, though you have broken my heart a bit with that six).

One day, I hope this song will get the recognition it deserves. I’m not sure it ever will though. With ABBA’s greatest moments, the realisation of their value to popular music may have been delayed, but there was an easy through-line from their early awkwardness through to the achievement of songwriting greatness, with the irresistible context of two marriages falling apart. I genuinely believe Viva Forever to be a perfect song, but it’s a bit of a black sheep in their catalogue. Stately ballads were as much their thing as big pop songs, but this one strikes at an emotional chord that 2 Become 1 and Too Much don’t really reach for. Goodbye, as mentioned, is very much a sister to this song, but it doesn’t quite reach the same heights, and in any case it’s the early brace of hits and the mania surrounding them that I think they’ll always be defined by, not surprising moments like this.

Why do I love it so much? To be honest it’s something I find difficult to put into words. It is my very favourite song, and it touches me in a way no other song does. Although the song preceded Geri’s departure, it went on to have a very specific resonance in that at the time of its release it obviously marked the end of something. But more importantly, for a group that defined a moment in the lives of so many children, it is as perfect a description of growing up as I can imagine. It’s a song about holding on to something while also letting it go. It’s about knowing, or wanting to know, that something mattered, even if it’s over. It’s about hope, uncertainty and reassurance. Like all the best songs, it feels both universal and specific.

It’s also the best any of them have ever sung. The interplay between Emma Bunton and Mel B was a staple of their ballads, but it was never more effectively employed than here, harnessing the contrast between their voices for maximum emotional impact. “Do you still remember? / Yes, I still remember…”

Victoria also gets a lovely little moment to shine, and Mel C’s ad-libs were never better or more tastefully employed. The lack of Geri is quite interesting considering the timing. I’ve never really understood why even on the album she doesn’t get a line, but it wound up being entirely fitting and, to be honest, emotional resonance never exactly being her strong suit, probably for the best.

Goodbye was a more than worthy sequel which we’ll get to in time, but for me this works far better as an elegy for the group. Mixed solo careers, disappointing reunions and that bloody musical might tarnish their memory a bit, but this song rises above it all. The easiest ten I’ll ever give on this countdown.

This was a welcome encounter in my first journey through the Spice Girls’ songs. I’ve found Spiceworld a strong album altogether, more than I had expected it to be, and this is certainly one of the stronger tracks; a more appealing ballad for me than some of the others we’ve heard so far. My own mark isn’t that far off Tom’s, but I can see where JLucas is coming from. 7.

(“Move Over” was the other surprise from the album; it deserved to be more than a forgotten promotional single for Pepsi.)

Lovely comment at #8 – the kind of thing that makes me feel guilty!

This is quite pretty and understated, and the Spanish touches are nice; with a bit more care it could have been really good. It falls down on two counts, however: it glides pleasantly but doesn’t really take off; and it’s subjected to the curse of many songs which deserve better, viz. the Unchanging, Unimaginative, and Unexciting Programmed Drum Track. SIX.

We love a bit of Latin influence in our pop music in the UK don’t we? Just scrolling through a few old number 1s, you’ve got bossa nova on “Jesus To A Child”, Latin beats (lifted) on “Fairground”, Spanish shouting by The Clash, “La Isla Bonita” and plenty more besides. Indeed, if memory serves were going to get more references to Spain pretty shortly – and in the future, we’ve got bunnies from across the Spanish speaking world to look forward to.

Reductively, I assume it must be something to do with it being a common holiday destination for a large number of UK holidaymakers, so there is more exposure to Latin influences, in an environment when a lot of people are relaxed and predisposed to associating those elements with pleasant memories. That said, if there’s any other ideas as to why we seem to like this stuff, I am all ears. One imagines that there must be more to it than it just being where we go on hols. Especially as I never went to Spain on holiday, we always went to France, so I could just be pulling this out of thin air.

I’ve said it on previous SG threads that relistening to them well after the fact has hugely opened my ears up to Emma Bunton. She’s great on this and kudos to JLucas for pointing out the interplay with Mel B, which to my mind is what makes this record. Also, any SG record minimising Geri is, as ever, going to win points with me. Not having the associations with Spain though, I’m a bit more cynical about those influences being present – let’s have a record that we can play throughout the Spanish speaking world, keep hitting the relevant markets – my fault obviously, not the record’s. Still, I can’t shake it, so whilst it’s pleasant, I’m not going much, if anything, beyond Tom’s mark, I think.

Certainly their best single since “2 Become 1”, the multiplicity of interpretations that Lonepilgrim mentions above is one of the song’s greatest strengths. Although the “forced” reinterpretation that Geri’s exit placed upon the public interpretation of the song…works well, to be point of not actually feeling, or perhaps even being, forced at all. I think of this song as even more than “Wannabe” (let alone the atrocious come-back single, year later, that broke their record of all singles reaching the top 2 in the charts…), being a celebration of female friendship and solidarity – a little more mature that that expressed in “Wannabe”, less cheeky, more sincere, but dreamy, none the less, perhaps. I like it, quite a lot, actually. And frankly when it comes to Spice-related records with Spanish touches, there are far worse…

Call it serendipity, call it dumb fucking luck, but it couldn’t have been a better requiem if it had been planned. Lost holiday loves, lost friends (the video, all about slowly growing apart from one another), and ultimately lost colleagues. Geri’s Spanish heritage comes through again, as with Spice Up Your Life; her voice may not be here any more, but the heart and the spirit – the Spice, perhaps – remains.

And as with their best ballads, this is one of those that plays to everybody’s vocal strengths. Emma retelling the sweet and flirty first verse, while Mel B responds; but again, Mel C’s wistful heartbreak – better in the verse than the chorus, but awesome in both – takes the song to a whole new level. Even Posh’s contribution doesn’t damage the song in any way at all. It’s perfection.

AND it stopped Puff Daddy and Jimmy Page getting to Number 1. (And Will Smith, but Just The Two Of Us wasn’t total dogshit.)

#8 was bang on, on so many levels.

10.

16: I’m surprised there isn’t more Latin influence, personally – it’s where I’d look if I wanted to make a tune more rhythmically-complicated, but there aren’t many spring to mind. Roxanne is another. I can’t think of a big flamenco track.

21: I suspect the right answer is the simple one – the Spice Girls’ songs weren’t actually that good. The best Abba and Queen tunes are exquisitely-crafted, verses building up to unfolding resolutive choruses and all that; Spice tunes largely are not, they’re a bunch of hooks which sometimes make for a great song and sometimes don’t. And because they had fewer hits, in their musical they can’t edit out the chaff so easily. Including the verses on Stop or Spice Up Your Life would make for quite a lot of dead time, and it’s not like they could strip those out and replace with an album cut like e.g. The Day Before You Came.

An interesting point about the song (I don’t like all the discussion coming back to the dreadful musical that shares its name) is that it sold almost double what the preceding ‘Stop’ did. Obviously Geri’s exit gave the song massive publicity, but even so for the fourth single from a big-selling album it did exceptionally well.

UK Sales figures for the Spiceworld singles (as of September 2007)

Spice Up Your Life: 800,000
Too Much: 657,000
Stop: 331,000
Viva Forever: 623,000

Obviously those figures suggest Stop may just have been an aberration and Viva Forever returned them to the figures they’d come to expect (The four singles from the debut all cleared 600,000 too). Goodbye did even better – 853,000; but then that like Too Much was a Christmas #1, and a brand new track.

Well, I never went but I got the impression it was the actual story that was the ‘problem’, and it was more that ‘Mamma Mia’ got it very right than the others ‘failed’ as such.

Rather late in the day – this is the only Spice Girls song I’ll actually admit to liking; it has a beguiling melody and Mel C’s voice (not something I’m particularly keen on) is used to good effect on the chorus. It also gets a brownie point for blocking an absolute stinker from the top; Will Smith’s Just The Two Of Us (the tribute to his son where the advice includes holding open doors).

I’d never actually seen the video until a few nights ago when I watched it on YouTube. What I found interesting is a curious lack of girl power – the Spice Girls always had a `girls night out with no boys` feel about them and the childhood friendship fading theme would have worked with two female protaganists. As with C’est La Vie a few entries ago I’m curious as to where the child actors are now.

Finally, although Geri’s departure did gain the song more publicity than it might otherwise have got, credit has to go to the Spice Girls for taking and holding number one despite a six month old parent album being available – compare this to the trio of here today gone tomorrow chart toppers that preceded it.

#31: Emma sings the first verse, and is the highest in the mix for the pre-chorus and chorus. (As is usually the case on Spice Girls songs, particularly the ballads).

Mel B sings the first half of the second verse, then Mel C picks up from ‘Slipping through our fingers/ Like the sands of time…”

Victoria sings the middle eight (“Back where I belong now….”)

Mel C does all the ad-libs towards the end, and Mel B does the very last chorus solo.

Geri I *think* harmonises with Victoria in the second half of the middle eight too, but I’m not sure. She’s barely audible on this one at all really. She’s generally a bit of a sore thumb on their records, being by far the worst singer in the group (Victoria gets a lot of stick but while her voice is thin, it’s perfectly servicable compared to Geri who actively sounds flat most of the time.)

@31: I believe you mean “Apologies mean nothing when the damage is done”…but yes, that line is one corker of a simile for a young broken heart, I love it.

@32 “Geri… actively sounds flat most of the time”.

Aren’t we in the Autotune era by now? So if Geri does sound flat , it must be a deliberate musical choice.

Or if not, she must be about the last singer ever to appear on Popular for whom singing off-key is an issue.

Great fact from Wiki on Autotune: it was invented by an engineer working for Exxon, who was trying to develop new ways to process results from seismic surveys to find oil. The pop/hydrocarbon complex!

I’m sure I remember Stephen Street saying they’d routinely use autotune to tweak Morrissey during The Queen Is Dead – not just the ‘By land, by sea’ but either. I don’t know the history to know whether this is remotely plausible/even possible though.

Oh, God, I think I know the one you’re talking about, Christ, it’s flat as a pancake.

@TM. Thanks for that link. It led me immediately to:
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/Englands-World-Cup-Cocaine-Shortage.

All a bit bland to my ears. The Spanish guitar bits are quite nice though. 3/10.

Possibly my ultimate favourite by them, certainly tied with ‘Spice Up Your Life’. The only song of theirs to move me emotionally. I love the strings, lyrics, vocals, sombre mood.

I thought releasing such a mournful song in both sound and lyrics actually showed a bit of bite from them to go against the predictable.

For that reason, they have a memorable song in their canon.